I mentioned in class today that I personally do not feel that there was an improper relationship between Gertrude and Claudius prior to the death of King Hamlet. I know that other teachers share varying opinions. What are your thoughts on this topic? What examples can you give from the text to back up your opinion? Do you think it is relevant to the plot either way? Do you think Shakespeare really cared what we made of that relationship?
Posted by A. Davis at 11:08 AM
I want to use this blog as a multi-purpose blog for my English IV AP class. I will be posting the weekly schedule on here, as well as any assignments. My favorite part is probably to showcase wonderful writing and projects! I also will probably post some school/class news at times. Finally, and the most important part to you twenty-eight over-achievers, is that I will be putting a few postings per unit and the students are required to post a comment (a THOUGHTFUL comment) every unit. These comments should take the form of an online discussion, where you read all of the comments before yours and then make a contribution. Each unit will have a blogging grade attached to it. I am looking forward to the semester both in the classroom as well as online! :)
14 comments:
The fact that the Ghost of old Hamlet seems to know everything that is going on and mentions nothing of a previous affair leads me to believe that there was no such affair. The fact that Gertrude married rather quickly could be due to the fact that she did not want to give up being the queen, which in itself is quite selfish. Either way, I don't think her motives have an effect on the plot.
Carmelita
I agree that the Queen's own actions do not have any effet on the plot. However; young Hamlet's opinions of her ovbiously do. It appears to me that she is taken aback by her private incounter with her son. Which leads me to believe that she is innocent, in that respect at least. I also think that Shakespeare was a crafty writer and slipped this small detail in for the listeners own intrigue.
-Sierra Bolin
I have to say I do not think there was an affair with Gertrude and Claudius. The Ghost of King Hamlet even says him and the queen had a very good relationship he loved her and she loved him. I think the Queen married right away because she didn't want to be alone and i agree with Carmelita she was very selfish. She knew she would have to give up the throne and she did not want to. I don't think she had an effect on the plot, but I do think Shakespeare cares what we make of there relationship. It had alot of effect on the play. It was a good play though.
With them, there probably was not like any official relationship, but I believe there had to be something because they married so fast. Claudius is a rat and obviously did not care for his brother. Gertrude is just trying to play innocent. If she was she would not remarry so soon to his brother. There was something going on between them. I do not think she was a part of it to be evil in any way because throughout the play, she is innocent. I do think she is just clueless and probably doesn't know what is going on.
On this one, I would have to agree with Walt. When you look at this whole situation, I do not see any other situation that would lead to Gertrude and Claudius marrying so quickly. Claudius showed no respect for his own brother's death and this further confirms the fact that he was being disloyal to his brother.
You guys already know where I stand on this one. I just want to speak to what Sias said, though, for a minute. There were lots of reasons that Gertrude would have married Claudius even if there wasn't an affair. Among them: she wanted to keep the throne and this was one way to do it, she needed a male at her side quickly to be taken seriously in that society, she needed a male at her side to be dealt with in a valid way by other nations (how many queens of England married solely to have a male in order to make other nations take them seriously?), she wanted to marry again quickly for companionship and Claudius was an easy choice, since she already was part of his life. This is one that we usually talk about when I am here for Act I. I always ask my classes if it would have bothered Hamlet as much that she married quickly if it had been to someone other than his uncle. I usually then mortify them by saying that, to me, it makes sense. I would want to marry someone I knew very well if Kraig died. I would want someone who would love my kids and treat them well. Who better than someone who has been a part of your life for a long time, who already loves your children as family, who you already care about? [As a sidenote, I would like to say that both of Kraig's brothers already have wives, so they are not possibilities. :)] Anyway, again, I really see it completely differently. You will see a villainous female character in a few weeks. Gertrude? I don't see her as villainous at all. Powerless? Yes. (And by the way, Mrs. Wyche and I discussed it at lunch today. She holds to her view, as I hold to mine. And I bet you are all thinking that you are jealous that your lunchroom conversations were about the weekend and hot dates instead of Shakespeare's female characters...)
I think that for sure Claudius and Gertrude had a lil' somethin' somethin' going on before the death of Old King Hamlet. Nobody gets married so soon after the death of their spouse if they really love them. They must have had prior relationship "scandals" before Claudius's brothers death because they're marriage was so hasty. Also, Hamlet has a grudge against Claudius and constantly reminds his mother of her hasty marriage to Claudius when hints that he knows something that their marriage was a little sketchy.
I am kind of stuck in the middle on my thoughts as to whether or not Claudius and Gertrude were having an affair prior to the death of Hamlet's father. On one hand, it seems that there would have had to have been some sort of relationship between the two, even if it was very minor. Surely there was a bit of mutual affection that caused them to get married. But on the other side of things, I can see how selfish motives could have played a part on Gertrude's decision to marry Claudius. It was a quick way to maintain her status.
Also, I think you can argue either way from the Ghost's actions. He does not want Hamlet to harm his mother, but it could be for a couple of different reasons. She could truly have not known about Claudius' plot to kill Hamlet's father, which would make her innocent of any wrongdoing in that matter. Or perhaps he simply loves her so much that although she may have known, he cannot harbor any ill will towards her.
I agree with Hillary. I don't think that they had an affair prior to the death of old Hamlet, but I do believe that Claudius might have liked Gertrude. In the story there is nothing that tells us that Claudius had feelings for Gertrude before his death, but i think that is on of the reasons to cause him to kill his own brother. He was jealous and also wanted the throne. I think they married so fast because she wanted someone to get the death off of her mind and something to be happy about instead of being sad all the time. I don't think Shakespeare really cared about what we made of the relationship but maybe he wanted to leave us questioning about it.
I fully agree with you Mrs. Davis that Gertrude choosing to marry Claudius was probably the best idea. It makes prefect since to me that she would choose someone she was close with. In the Movie "P.S. I Love You" the same situation happens to the main character Holly. At the end of the flim we are left with the notion that she is going to start a relationship with her late husband's boyhood best friend. And personally if that was to occure to one of my parents I would rather the new spouse be someone I knew and who cared for me beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Sierra Bolin
I think that it is really irrelevant to the plot. However, the fact that Shakespeare does not give us a concrete answer does make the story more intriguing. I think the relationship old Hamlet had with Gertrude is trivial to the plot. However, what was important was the view that Hamlet formed of his mother. I am more leaning towards the opinion that anything was going on before, though. I do believe that if the ghost of old Hamlet knew, he possibly would have treated her differently. But even if it didn't happen, Hamlet could have thought it did:
“Ay, that incestuous, that adulterate beast, with witchcraft of his wit, with traitorous gifts, - O wicked wit and gifts, that have the power so to seduce- won to his shameful lust, the will of my most seeming- virtuous queen."
-Calah
(By the way, I definitely went home and recited Hamlet without any mistakes! Ugh... that was just a rough day. Well, anyway, sorry for putting you all through that ;)
Calah, great job using the actual lines from the play. I apparently can't stay out of this, and must just say, what if he is meaning that Claudius was adulterate and incestuous in his heart by craving the love of Gertrude before Old Hamlet was even cold?
And glad you could say it with no mistakes. Keep practicing, all of you, because you never know at which job interview you are going to be asked to recite either the Prologue of the CT in Middle English or a soliloquy from Hamlet....
I think that while there was probably nothing physical between Gertrude and Claudius that there was an emotional affair. For her to get over her husband's death and remarry as quickly as she did makes me wonder if they had been something more than just brother and sister in law. Old Hamlet still loved her though and probably didn't suspect her in his death.
Kelly
Yes, it was wrong. Rather there was a prior affair between Claudius and Gertrude, I am not sure, but I think Gertrude would have had to have married someone soon just because of the fact she was a queen. There had to be a king on the throne, and what better choice than the former King's brother? This does have some effect on the plot, because Hamlet would not have verbally assaulted his mother if he did not suspect adultery. As for what Shakespeare wanted you to think, he wanted you to suspect adultery just to further Claudius's role as the villian. Claudius is the most static main character, and that is simply because Shakespeare wants him portrayed as a perfect villian, with no redeeming qualities.
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